2009-120 Minutes

Minutes PDF-UA 2009-120

July 8, 2009 Minutes

PDF/UA Working Group Teleconference

PDF/UA (Universal Accessibility) Working Group Meeting Minutes

Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 3:00 P.M. - 5:00 P.M. ET

Conference Call Information
International Dial-in: +1-303-928-2600
U.S. Dial-in: 1-888-742-8686
Conference ID: 7083945

NOTE: The meeting will be conducted "live" on the Wiki and will require
all participating Committee members to edit the Wiki during the meeting.

Roll Call, check-in re Wiki changes, ensure all participants are properly registered (please re-register ahead of time).

Duff Johnson - DJ, Chair Appligent Document Solutions
Cherie Ekholm - CE, Microsoft
Mark Gavin - MG, Appligent Document Solutions
Greg Pisocky - GP, Adobe Systems
Leonard Rosenthol - LR, Adobe Systems
Neil Soiffer - NS, Design Science

Review PDF/UA 2009-119 Agenda

Rosenthol / Soiffer

Approval of 2009-118 Minutes

Johnson / Ekholm

Discussion of Redaction Zones

Proposed change was to provide dimensions of redaction zones

LR: Where will these dimensions be made available and what format? There is an issue currently there is no standard way to describe the dimensions of a redacted area.

GP: I recall thinking at the time, what value does this information provide, but I cannot recall if we came to any conclusions.

DJ: A redaction does have X Y coordinates

DJ: You are going to have to redact in such a way that you drop an object on the page. Then the idea that the object has dimensions does not become overly complicated.

LR: Let's assume the user has redacted a 100 x 100 area. Where does it say that the object must be the same size as the redacted area?

DJ: It does not.

LR: We agree the object has no relationship to the redacted area. So how do you define the dimensions and where do you put them in the PDF file?

LR: We are now limiting ourselves to redactions that are rectangular.

DJ: There is a need for technical specificity that we need to develop before approving.

DJ: Should we approach 32000 about creating a tag where there is no object.

LR: We should work out the implementation details of such a tag before we approach 32000

MG: If we want to specify a dimensionless tag for 32000 we should also come up with uses beyond redaction.

LR: Strictly speaking, not a dimensionless tag, it is an objectless tag. What you want is a marked point, not marked content.

GP: Could be useful with the text editing annotations.

LR: Getting into a fuzzy area worth a discussion on its own.

DJ: How does Word do it for text edit annotations, Cherie?

CE: We do pass that information along but I don't know what the AT does with it.

GP: Sounds as if we came to a point where we agree there's something we want to place before 32000

DJ: Yes, but we should also consider Mark Gavin's recommendation that we find uses for it beyond the redaction tag.

DJ: I am not hearing a ringing chorus of support in terms of objectless tags.

DJ: There are actually 2 types of redaction 1) A redaction without borders - objectless 2) A redaction with clearly defined borders - needs dimensions

LR: We could do either, or, or both.

LR: I believe it can be used in a compatible way that does not require a new language feature. I don't have a problem with the current implementation where you place a "dummy" tag.

MG: With regard to having an objectless tag is in certain high security environments, I have a concern having to explain to these organizations "Why am I adding invisible content to the page?"

DJ has moved provide dimensions of redaction zones, back into drafting stage. Discuss the 3 cases, where a redaction occurs and there is an absence of content, the situation where there is an object, visible or invisible. Remaining to be resolved is the question as to whether the dimensions have any meaning to the problem of AT.

Note add object to content to redaction. Justification for a redaction will be noted with a justification tag.

Address Action Items items

Didn't get to further Action Items due to extend time discussing redaction implementation.

Wrapup, adjourn

DJ: The crrent draft for the CD has been authored by Cherie posted to the Wiki. There is a ballot open on this document due October 2, 2009.

Move to Adjourn